Welcome one and all, this is my third conversation with Mike from Huff No More, it’s been a joy to have been along for the ride as he and Joss have taken. game from ideation to successful kickstarter. If you want to read our previous conversations you can find them here and here. You can also find Sakana Stack on Kickstarter until the end of the October 2024.
Joe: Hey Mike, it’s great to catch up with you again to explore your current Kickstarter for Sakana Stack. Before you start, let’s have a brief introduction.
Mike: Hi Joe, it’s great to be back on the blog! I’m Mike, the designer of Sakana Stack, which is being released by Huff No More, a new indie publisher in the UK run by my wife, Joss. After designing the game, I’ve been promoting it at various cons throughout the year, while Joss manages the business side of things, including all artwork and graphic design. Sakana Stack is a fast-paced card game inspired by Japanese card games I’m a huge fan of, as well as traditional card games I played with my family growing up. We are midway through our Kickstarter campaign and are delighted to say we funded in just 3 hours after launch!
We are midway through our Kickstarter campaign and are delighted to say we funded in just 3 hours after launch!
How have you been, and how are your own design projects? I can see Drop Zone Chocks Away is progressing really nicely, and it looks like you’re working on something new.
Joe: Everything trundles along steadily; I don’t think I’m anywhere close to crowdfunding yet. But Drop Zone is a good game that people enjoy playing. At some point during 2025, it’ll be ready.
The last time we chatted, you caught us up on the things you were doing to get ready for the launch. Looking back at that conversation, how do you feel about the decisions you were making back then?
Mike: I’ll be looking forward to my next chance to playtest Drop Zone and see the changes you’ve made!
It’s interesting looking back now, as at the time, everything we did was a first. On reflection, I feel really happy that a lot of the decisions we made have had the intended impact and helped us achieve our funding goal so quickly.
We put a lot of research into decisions before committing, especially anything with a time or money cost attached. One of the best decisions we made was getting quite a few preview copies of Sakana Stack made so we could send them to numerous reviewers. The UK Review Circle was brilliant, and we received some great feedback. Plus, getting copies to our written and video reviewers in good time to plan amongst their busy schedules was key. This meant we could pull together a good number of reviews for the campaign page, and also benefit from those reviewers sharing with their own subscribers in advance of launch.
The UK Review Circle was brilliant, and we received some great feedback.
There are two main points we would have changed: initially sending to reviewers without a 2-player mode and having an initial rulebook that was overly complicated for a relatively simple game. However, by getting preview copies out early, we’ve had time to rectify both of those. We’re really happy with the 2-player version of the game and the new rulebook, which has been streamlined and thoroughly playtested. Both will be in the final production version of Sakana Stack.
We’ve found there is so much to learn before you launch that it can be a bit overwhelming at times. Have you found any parts to be particularly challenging so far in your own journey?
Joe: Artwork. I can do the games, am mediocre at graphic design and can get things to a decent standard, but my art skills are lacking. The challenge here is how to find and secure an artist and then work out how to fund that aspect of the game. I’m not sure I know the answer yet!
I know that from previous discussions, you’ve been trying to keep marketing costs down to a minimum. I wonder if you might be able to share your strategies on how to do this, and also where you have decided to place financial resources?
Mike: Yeah, artwork is a tough one. If I had to look externally, I wouldn’t know the first place to look! And then there is the upfront cost as well. I think it all needs to come into that initial breakdown of costs and how much to invest in the project from the outset.
I feel really happy that a lot of the decisions we made have had the intended impact and helped us achieve our funding goal so quickly.
In respect of keeping costs to a minimum, it really comes from being able to keep as much of the work in-house as we could. Joss has always had an incredible creative side, so being able to hand-paint the artwork and manage all graphic design was huge for us. My work background is in business development strategies, so I used a lot of the core principles in how we approached the social media side of things and built our network. With these two very different attributes, we were able to cover many of the things needed to build a strategy and fully implement it. One area where we have spent a bit is on Meta ads, which we have been trying to get our heads around! We tried a few things in the build-up to the campaign, and now our click-through rate is pretty good since going live.
For us, the biggest financial resource was exhibiting at UK Games Expo. And it was worth every penny! The starter stand is a really great way for first-time UKGE exhibitors to attend at a lower cost. But when you add on hotel, food, travel, and the fact you have to actually build a stand, it really adds up! Joss managed artwork and graphic design for our pop-up banners, and we built our fish crate podium ourselves, so there was a bit of DIY to our stand! We also had our flyers with fridge magnets and our Huffy the pufferfish giveaway. It was an awful lot of planning, but an incredible experience that we planned ahead for and really made the most of.
The biggest financial resource was exhibiting at UK Games Expo and it was worth every penny!
I know you’ve done some A/B testing with the “red arrow,” which pops up on my Insta feed a lot for Meta ads. Do you think this or any other common ad trends have a positive impact?
Joe: Ads are a dark art, but I think there are a few useful guiding principles:
- Always A/B test ads, even if the difference between the two is subtle. You get quick feedback about what’s working and can quickly stop an ad that doesn’t perform.
- Click-through rates range from about 2-8%, which came as a surprise the first time I ran them.
- Finally, just because they clicked doesn’t mean they’ll sign up—every part of the journey needs to work to get that sought-after email or follow.
As for ad trends, I’ve no idea. I think you can pay people to tell you what works, but a lot of it is trial and error.
So, when you were building up to the launch, what did those three weeks leading up to the launch day feel like?
Mike: The build-up to the Kickstarter launch was a whirlwind! What really helped was that we had started on the page early. We filmed the short clips we turned into gifs quite a bit before, and Joss had already pulled together the style in line with the Sakana Stack colour palette. We also had a number of quotes but were still waiting on a few key reviews. This bit was quite stressful, as it is such an unknown—what if the reviewers didn’t like our game?! Fortunately, all the reviews we received were really positive, and we had made sure we scheduled them in some time before so they would be released just before the Kickstarter, allowing us to include them on our page. We also got other publishers and designers to review our page for feedback, which helped finesse the final page.
We attended more events, which were really great. We went to Norwich Games Con and an Indie Publishing event at Dice Box in Leamington Spa, where we got to showcase Sakana Stack. These events were great for getting out there and keeping our presence growing. We also went to Playfest just a couple of days before, although we also playtested a new game there while sharing details on Sakana Stack. The other thing we aligned was our social media content. Joss had our Instagram posts ready for the key weeks/days before launch and the day itself. We also had our newsletter scheduled for the morning of the launch. From an idea we discussed, we also had some pre-launch videos with some great people who have played and enjoyed Sakana Stack, which we posted in the lead-up to launch to build as much hype as possible! It was great to have you in one of those videos, Joe!
The key thing was to be organised. There is so much to think about, to design, and to plan. Having everything structured and mapped out for what we needed to do and when was critical. We did have other ideas pop up that we ran with, so we needed to be a bit flexible. But having the majority of the page ready well in advance really helped us be prepared.
What really helped us get prepared was talking to so many publishers who have been there before. There are some okay sources available in books, etc., but speaking to people really helped us understand what we needed to do before launch. Have you found any really helpful resources to get publishers crowdfunding launch-ready?
Joe: Organisation—I assume you have a beast of a Gantt chart?
In terms of helpful resources, I’m currently deep into the Crowdfunding Nerds podcast. It’s spot on for the level of insight I’m seeking at the moment. They go deep into many important and intriguing topics. A couple of episodes that are well worth the time invested in listening are:
- Ep 196: Are You Ready to Launch on Kickstarter?
- Ep 190: Unleashing the Power of Storytelling in Kickstarter Marketing
- Ep 188: How To Stand Out + Newbie Designer Mistakes
If podcasts aren’t your thing, then it’s probably time to give them another try because the advice in these is like gold!
If podcasts aren’t your thing, then it’s probably time to give them another try because the advice in these is like gold! But if you must read instead of listening, they also have some super useful articles too: https://crowdfundingnerds.com/articles/
I’m really interested in the experience of that build-up. Did you have any moments on that journey that you might describe as pivotal, any points where you switched direction in your plan, or made decisions that looking back you feel were significant?
Mike: To stay organised, we used the ClickUp app, which was helpful for tracking key things and deadlines. Although I still like writing everything down in to-do lists, I would often do that and refresh each week as we ticked bits off. We have listened to a few of the Crowdfunding Nerds podcasts, which have definitely been really helpful in getting us prepared.
In respect of the pivotal moments, I think the first point was having the absolute confidence that Sakana Stack was a game which was marketable and people would enjoy playing and want to add to their collections. This happened at the public playtests at Handycon, Paradice, and Airecon in the first quarter of the year. This included the design, where the first playtests at Handycon provided feedback about how the design could improve and how it could be more accessible to colourblind players. We made these changes, and then at Paradice the design was really well received, so we knew we had a close-to-finished game at that point.
The next part was the UK Games Expo where so much of the work we put in came together. While we’ve spoken earlier about the costs and the things to make the stand, the preparation to maximise the return was critical. We had a whole host of pre-arranged meetings with content creators, publishers, and other people so we could really extend our network. A significant amount of support, promotion, and other events have culminated from UKGE, so being there, being present, and being prepared felt like a really significant turning point where we could push on with our campaign.
Another huge source of support and inspiration has been #boardgameprotohype. Being part of the Insta community has really helped to keep our energy up when times were feeling a bit tough in the build-up to launch. How have you found the #boardgameprotohype community has helped you in your own game development?
Joe: That’s all so incredibly well planned out, and quite inspiring – makes me feel like it’s possible! The #boardgameprotohype is doing two things for me: it’s a creative, supportive community that spurs me on to do more development and share the process. Which is important, without it, I don’t think I’d have so much of a game to share. Secondly, it’s become a place that I can offer support to. I realised a few months back that I don’t need my game to be a reality, but I do want the games of others to become reality. The group is a space where I can share my ability to support.
Let’s get to the Kickstarter, tell me about the moment before and the hours after you launched. What was that like for both of you? What did you do during that time?
Mike: Stressful! I think we felt like we were in pretty good shape for launch day itself, in respect of the page, building up some hype, and feeling fairly confident with our day-one backers. But at the same time, there was a massive fear that we wouldn’t hit our funding goal. We’ve seen some fantastic games from brilliant publishers not fund where they seem to have many pre-launch followers. So it is difficult to explain the feelings of excitement and fear combined on the days leading up to launch. Let’s just say I didn’t sleep very well the night before!
it is difficult to explain the feelings of excitement and fear combined on the days leading up to launch
We had got ourselves prepared for the day of launch by taking the day off work and having childcare ready. We knew that whatever happened, the first few hours should have a lot of activity, with potential questions from backers, comments to respond to, and keeping up-to-date on our social media channels. So having those first few hours completely clear was essential. A newsletter update went out to our mailing list, and social media posts promoting that today was launch day were up. In the hour or so building up to hitting the launch button, there was quite a bit of pacing from Joss, and I re-read the Kickstarter page about 50 times!
Then as we approached midday, it was time to hit the launch button and hope for the best! We knew that whatever happened, we’d had a brilliant adventure, made a game we can be proud of, and met so many great people along the way. And then the first few backers started to come in; there was definitely a bit of a race for backer #1 spot! Then it just kept on going for the first couple of hours. I was literally glued to the laptop responding to comments on the page, comments and shares on social media, and messages from backers. As we were approaching the funding goal, we really couldn’t believe how fast it was happening, and then we hit the funding goal bang on the three-hour mark! We had mentally prepared for the month-long campaign, so to fund in the first few hours was just amazing.
Once things had calmed down, we spent the evening out with some of our local board game group to celebrate the launch and funding. It was great to share that moment with some of the people that had been at the very first playtests and supported us throughout our campaign.
Joe: Watching the journey and the Kickstarter fund has been a joy to be part of, so thank you for bringing us along for the adventure.
I wonder if you could briefly sum up your next steps as the Kickstarter draws to a close.
Mike: Thanks for being a part of it! So many people have been a part of the adventure, and we’re incredibly thankful for everyone’s support.
So next steps are a combination of updates and activity to continue to grow our backers on the campaign, along with finalising bits behind the scenes now we know the game will be going to production. This includes setting up our pledge manager and getting files across to our manufacturer. We’ve made great progress with the updated rulebook and the inclusion of the two-player game so that it is ready to go into design.
We have some more bits of promotion in the form of podcasts I’ve been on and we are exhibiting at Handycon the last weekend of October, so in the final week of the campaign. We’re really excited to be exhibiting at Handycon as it feels like we’ve come full circle from our first public playtest at the January event, and we’re looking forward to setting up our fish market stand there!
We feel like we’re really organised and in a good place to hit our timelines, meaning that Sakana Stack will be with our backers in the first half of 2025, which we couldn’t be more excited about!
You find Sakana Stack on kickstarter until 30 October 2024, make sure to follow Huff No More on Instagram for more of their work. And, as ever, please consider subscribing to the blog – it really helps!!
